The Bible and the Trinity

Many Christians believe more strongly in the actual Bible language than in the Nicene Creed's explanation of the Godhead.  So do Mormons. 

I feel he Bible is divinely inspired and I give significant weight to it.

On the other hand, I view the Nicene Creed as a political compromise that does not claim to be divinely inspired, but instead was intentionally vague in order to unite various contending Christians under an emperor who was seeking increased power. Constantine wanted to be head of both the Church and State, and couldn’t do that if the Churches were fragmented and disagreed with each other. Like congress today with its compromises and earmarks, the Council of Nicea included something to please everybody, without claiming to have any new inspiration from God.

I also believe God wants us to understand Him, so that we can know Him, seek to emulate Him, and recognize that He also understands us.

My beliefs on the Godhead are heavily influenced by these Biblical scriptures, among others:

Matthew 3:16-17 (Also Mark 1:10-11, Luke 3:21-22)
“And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Luke 9:34-36 “While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud. And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him. And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone.”

John 17 “These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:”
” . . . Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.”

John 12:28 “Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him. Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.”

Luke 22:42 “Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.”

Acts 7:55 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.”

Other verses like this one referring to Jesus sitting or standing on the “right hand of God” include: Mark 16:19, Luke 22:69, Acts 2:33, Acts 5:31, Hebrews 10:12, Hebrews 12:2, Romans 8:34, Colossians 3:1, 1 Peter 3:22. Talk about some heavy repetition!

Can you point to one reference in the Bible that suggests God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are “one substance”? I cannot find one.

These scriptures make the most sense to me if I believe Jesus, the Son of God, The Only Begotten of the Father, was actually a son, born of Mary and God the Father through the power of the Holy Spirit, that Jesus has an actual Father who is actually in heaven, The Father has a separate “will” from Jesus, The Father can speak to Jesus with a voice that others present can hear, and that The Father can stand or sit and have a “right hand.”

That’s why Jesus looked up to heaven to pray, heard a voice from heaven, and referred to his Father so frequently, and that’s why Jesus had a very real struggle to align His will with His Father’s will, and is now standing or sitting on His Father’s right hand.

Suggesting that Jesus and His Father are exactly the same physical substance seems to to me to require that Jesus be an incredibly talented ventriloquist, a schizophrenic, and even intentionally deceptive. Or it requires that we dismiss the Bible entirely as a metaphor that didn’t really happen, but is just a big symbolic parable.

I’ve met quite a few non-Mormon Christians who share this view. But, even if they don’t, I still call them “Christians,” if they believe in Jesus and are trying to follow His teachings.

Bike Bubba–
I never claimed to have the same religion as Catholics or other Christians. If my beliefs were the same, my religion would be pointless and unnecessary, as I’ve already said.

I merely claim to meet Mirriam-Webster’s definition of Christian: “One who professes a belief in Jesus Christ.”

On your other question: I believe that all of us, including Satan, were originally spirit children, or creations, of our Father in Heaven. Satan was once an angel known as Lucifer, as suggested in Isaiah 14:12, who rebelled, was cast out of Heaven, and sought to destroy the agency of mankind and make us miserable, like himself.

He is in continued and direct opposition to, and completely different from, the Only Begotten Son, the Firstborn of the Father, Jesus Christ.

As compared to the 3,925 references to Jesus Christ in the Book of Mormon, there are only a handful that mention the devil, and almost always because of his direct opposition to Christ.

While you and I not may not believe the same way about those details, they have no bearing on whether or not I believe in Jesus Christ is the Son of God. If I have a brother who rebels and fights against me and everything I believe in, what relevance does that have to my own beliefs or actions? I don’t see the connection.

By the way, it seems you and I agree the Devil is a “created being.” Who created him? When? Why and how?